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Messages - ronan.thibaudau

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Down the road will buy a 2TB 80core+ server.

Impressive. But this is not proper way to go. Proper way is redesign of application to be not so memory hungry and GPU support. There are already World generating tools with GPU support, for example height map generation is 100x faster.

GPGPU is not the holy grail of everything, it's not like you can stick 2TB of ram on a video card quite yet and i'm using big servers to generate very large (non tiled) areas as a lot of filters break down in quality on tiled (need neighbooring information they can't get if it's rendering elsewhere).

And WM is not "memory hungry", it's pretty good at what it does i'd say and the conserve memory that dumps intermediate results is a nice plus.

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General Discussion / Re: Newbie Questions - Creating flat continents
« on: March 02, 2016, 11:16:46 PM »
For anything custom shaped (flat or not) you need to use the layout generator, add one then double click on it and you'll be able to "draw" the shape you want, then you can tweak the options (falloff distance etc) but you should be able to get a base shape exactly like what you want.

Then you use that as a base you will modify but if you don't want anything poping out of the water elsewhere you can also create a mask from that layout and feed that to any future filters to tell them "hey, only do stuff in this area".

I don't have the time for a tutorial so that's the gist of it.

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Also i'm going to have a pretty beefy server soon again, let me know if you'd be interested in having a very high resolution render done for free (if you're using a version of WM i have access to). Depending on how hungry your graph is i could go pretty high (i've done decently complex graphs at 128 000 X 128 000).

Hi Ronan, what are the specs of your server? I wonder if it has 1tb of RAM or something else.

Still haven't bought the large server i'll need down the road for my project so currently using these : https://www.ovh.com/fr/serveurs_dedies/enterprise/ (the mg 256), so 256gig of ram & 40 threads

Down the road will buy a 2TB 80core+ server.

4
Here's a project I've been working on in my free time. It's 100% procedural, I didn't use any layout tools, and it's straight out of WM.

High Res 8194x4097


Image of my graph (I don't know why, I like to see these things)...


Those are mostly macros, and the blue lines are each a set of 3 separate maps. For example, one pack contains Average Sun Light, Precipitation Potential, and Wind.

In the past I had it generating quality terrain zooming all the way down close to the size of a large Battlefield map. I've got some old examples of terrain up close here. I have more recently focused on continental scale generation and so naturally it looks like complete crap up close now. Unfortunately work has stalled because render times have become too bothersome for quick iteration, a new PC will do me good.

My end goal (long way away) is to generate an entire MMO sized world in a game engine (I'll be eyeing UNIGINE for sure!). I've got distribution maps for pretty much everything from bedrock to soil, to plant and tree life, weather conditions, and also farm land and cities. There's even a distinction between farm towns and port towns. I think I could actually generate distribution maps for just about everything I need to make a "living" MMO scale world. Granted it would probably be a dull world for a game, but also great base to start from.

I haven't used WM in a while but, beside the detail being gorgeous, something picked my interest, how do you manage to have "régions" like a southern desert and northern mountains without using any form of layout at all? I can see not using layout for the terrain itself but don't you even use a layout curve or something to show how "hot" the terrain should be generated?

Also i'm going to have a pretty beefy server soon again, let me know if you'd be interested in having a very high resolution render done for free (if you're using a version of WM i have access to). Depending on how hungry your graph is i could go pretty high (i've done decently complex graphs at 128 000 X 128 000).

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Guest Forum / Re: Basic to Professional .tmd file problem.
« on: January 29, 2015, 05:23:47 AM »
Are you sure the message isn't right? Maybe you downloaded a test version of 3.0 and downloaded V2 Professional instead of V3 since it's still marked as development?

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Development News / Re: Any news?
« on: January 29, 2015, 05:22:36 AM »
+1, really waiting for a final version and / or a sdk version for current version, currently i can't use geoglyph with the lastest WM because they don't have the SDK for it and i can't use older versions because multithreading isn't fixed in them.

Also received no answer to my email about that :(

7
Development News / Re: 3.0.dev2 Released
« on: January 19, 2015, 04:11:38 PM »

* Increased thread maximum from 32 to 256 (UI only allows up to 4*#processors)


Does anyone know how to actually use all those threads? is there a cloud service that lets you build a 256 cores machine? afaik amazon and azure arrive at 32 cores max.

No cloud won't help you there as it's a "lot of mid size machines", it doesn't help you automagically make bigger machines, you just need one single really big server (way above what you can rent) to make good use of 256 threads (128 core intel with HT would get you that, at 8 proc maximum you'd need 8 processor 16 core each with HT enabled). Pricey config but doable. I think the move to 256 was to future proof it but it definately is usable now (i know i requested it because the 32 limit was way too low for me, and i may make use of the 256 limit soon, but unlikely to go above before a few years).

Can you share your setup and where did you get it?

Currently i rent this when i need heavy lifting, it's not quite good enough but i don't want to buy untill i see a final V3 version with a final dev kit so i can test my complex graphs and see how they scale

https://www.ovh.com/fr/serveurs_dedies/enterprise/2014-MG-256.xml

It's only 40 threads / 256GB of ram however, so if you want bigger you need to buy something custom (either a heavy server or roll your own with something like a 8way supermicro motherboard)

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Development News / Re: 3.0.dev2 Released
« on: December 05, 2014, 09:45:30 PM »

* Increased thread maximum from 32 to 256 (UI only allows up to 4*#processors)


Does anyone know how to actually use all those threads? is there a cloud service that lets you build a 256 cores machine? afaik amazon and azure arrive at 32 cores max.

No cloud won't help you there as it's a "lot of mid size machines", it doesn't help you automagically make bigger machines, you just need one single really big server (way above what you can rent) to make good use of 256 threads (128 core intel with HT would get you that, at 8 proc maximum you'd need 8 processor 16 core each with HT enabled). Pricey config but doable. I think the move to 256 was to future proof it but it definately is usable now (i know i requested it because the 32 limit was way too low for me, and i may make use of the 256 limit soon, but unlikely to go above before a few years).

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bump bump  :lol:
http://i.imgur.com/2WSQlxK.png
Me placing islands around the land mass. Using masks for each side to indicate where islands where previously positioned so they do not get overwritten by the next set. A bit complicated but it works.

Scatter Madness :p This are only half the assets i have. Atm im using two pictures, one horizontal and one vertical, and use flipper device to mimic the other two rotations so i have a total of 4 directions. This is as optimized as i can get it atm. The device would benefit greatly from:

- Multi threading
- Remove 16 Input limit
- A Rotate device with (random) toggle

I probably wouldnt need so much expanders each step either when the 16 limit is raised, because per device it wont override its own placements, only in between scatter devices.

Damn, that DOES look like a huge pain to maintain :)

10
General Discussion / Re: best cpu for wm
« on: December 02, 2014, 08:10:49 AM »
Anyone had experience with hpc clustering? I mean version 3.0 will support up to 256 threads: as far as I know you need clustering, you're not going further than 40 cores with a multi-processor/multi-core machine.

As i pointed in my just made post, you can get a machine that will max this. Also clustering doesn't make any sense for a non distributed system, WM is a single program, it's not made for clustering and there's no way to make it automagically act like it is even if an OS virtualized ressources across a network (WM is very data intensive too and it would spend most of it's time with CPUs waiting on data transfers). It will also cost less to build a single very heavy machine vs plenty of small ones give better performance and allow you to run massive non tiled (thus coherent even on nodes that require neightboring information like erosion) builds.

Even a 256 thread monster doesn't cost THAT much compared to what high end servers used to cost (maybe 30-50K$ range tops) and at 10K you can get a decent middle ground, if not willing to spend that much you can rend a fairly decent server (40 threads / 256GB ram) at ovh for around 300€ before taxes / month iirc (can also rent it just a week for a worse price / time ratio but good if you need to just run a build).

11
General Discussion / Re: best cpu for wm
« on: December 02, 2014, 08:06:35 AM »
Pro version can and will use up to 32 cores assuming you have them, at the end its single core power * number of cores = speed ;)

I dont think I could live without the pro version, it would make the compiling double as slow at least :o

It actually uses more since the last dev version (up to 256 threads), i can confirm it works pretty good for most devices even at a high thread count (80+).

Budget is the limit, if budget is unlimited then the best thing on which to run WM today would be a server with a 8 socket motherboard and 8 of those 15 core 30 thread monsters : http://ark.intel.com/products/75255/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E7-8870-v2-30M-Cache-2_30-GHz for a total of 240 threads in parallel along with 2TB of memory. But such a huge server only makes sense at very high résolutions (128 000 +) for "normal" 1 to 8K résolutions anything will do the job, go toward intel at equal core count because of HT, make sure you get enough memory as even at 8K it gets hungry on ram on complex graph and ram is pretty cheap nowadays (don't get less than 16 gig, preferably 32).

12
Bug Reports and Help / Re: Cannot set more than 31 threads
« on: November 01, 2014, 03:11:06 PM »
I just tried dev 3 and things have improved substantially, there's no longer a "hard cap" on threads but some devices seem to have an internal cap (for example if i take the default world and use 128 threads, Advanced perlin will only use 48 but terrace will use all 128). Any luck this can get looked at / be another hard limit coded into the device?

13
General Discussion / Re: Seams in tiled terrains
« on: September 09, 2014, 09:51:36 AM »
Yes, this may be a good way.... But the mesh is about 8mil polys - and that will be just one of 4.
So I think it will not work out right this Way.

Cheers

The mash doesn't have to be 8mil poly at all, it can be whatever you decide (there is a dropdownlist in the mesh export, pick the option that lets you decide target polycount and export each terrain to say 200Kpoly, should be good enough to get a good idea)

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General Discussion / Re: Seams in tiled terrains
« on: September 07, 2014, 02:05:44 PM »
Yeah, I guessed something like that.

When I put together all 4 pieces into just one single 2k res heightmap - everything is fine. But when using 4 sep. 2k pieces, seams are showing.
Because of the terrain beeing a "Unity terrain" and no "real 3D mesh object" - there is no way to change the normals or recalculate them.

But wait - Maybe I should use normal maps on the unity terrains?!

A good first step would be to check if it actually is a unity terrain issue or an export tile issue, export as a mesh instead of a heightmap and import that into unity and place them next to each other, if you don't have the issue, it's a unity terrain issue, if you still do, it's an issue on world machine's side. It would be a good first step to debug things further

15
Bug Reports and Help / Re: Combiner hangs at very high resolution?
« on: August 08, 2014, 04:36:26 PM »
I was trying to repro this however this time combiner also stoped at 49% but instead of hanging world machine crashed and generated this dump, please find it attached and let me know if it helps.

Would really like it if you could also give a look at my 32 thread limit bug report from a few days ago as that one is actually a lot more critical to me.

Thanks!

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Bug Reports and Help / Re: Combiner hangs at very high resolution?
« on: August 08, 2014, 02:37:01 PM »
It can't be swaping (256 gig of ram and only 32 or 64 gig were in use during the build), CPU usage was at 0% when i checked so not sure what was happening. I'll try to repro this and send you a dump.

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Bug Reports and Help / Re: Combiner hangs at very high resolution?
« on: August 08, 2014, 01:33:27 PM »
Additional details :

The combiner is in "detail" mode

As you can see at even relatively high resolution the problem doesn't appear (at 16K on the same graph combiner takes only 1 second, i expected 65K to take around 16 seconds at the usual 4X slowdown per resolution doubling, and stoped at over 40K sec)



18
Bug Reports and Help / Combiner hangs at very high resolution?
« on: August 08, 2014, 01:29:03 PM »
I did expect a somewhat slow render but combiner just seems to hang at high res while it's no performance culprit at low resolution.

As you can see i'm rendering at 64K & about 1000 seconds were spend on the pre combine devices, meaning around 40K seconds of the remaining time were spent hung on the combiner (over 10hours stuck on it at 49%).

19
Feature Requests / Node resolution clamping
« on: August 08, 2014, 01:22:07 PM »
Hey, the per node resolution override is G R E A T, it definately allows some very high renders while keeping some of the base relatively resolution independant and expensive nodes running quick

But it would be really nice if you could add another per node optional setting to clamp between "min" and "max" resolution (absolute résolutions, not relative)

So that i could say , this device runs at 1/4 resolution, but that value must be clamped between 1K and 16K (some devices don't need to be high res to give a good resolution, espcially if they're just giving a base shape, some others actually look BAD at high res because they give too detailed result).

I would also love a resample node that does nothing and "only" has the resize parameters (relative + override) so i could say run erosion at 64K and actually use that as a mesh, but scale down the maps before feeding it to the texture maker to avoid too grainy textures.

Overall the per node size overrides are a game changer, but those 2 additional things would really make things perfect and i'm pretty sure they're trivial to add with the work already done!

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Bug Reports and Help / Re: Cannot set more than 31 threads
« on: August 04, 2014, 05:18:29 PM »
After more testing this is more than an UI issue, i found where the setting is and set it to 40/40 Inside the file, then WM used up to 32 threads but no more, is there a hard limit in the code and is it easy to lift? I'm assuming this isn't by design since we talked long ago and you didn't think there'd be an issue on a massive 80core server.

note: all of this is on the last dev version.

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