World Machine Community

General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Stephen on April 06, 2005, 07:04:35 pm

Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Stephen on April 06, 2005, 07:04:35 pm
It's been roughly a month since WM1 hit beta. In that time, 57 bugs have been solved, and double handful of new features added. We're still a decent ways out from the public release. Almost every feature is in place, but there is still a lot of testing and fixing to be done.

There are too many things new or changed for WM1.0; creating a complete list would take too long. Instead, here's an illustrated guide through the most eye-opening changes.


(http://www.world-machine.com/wm_images/tour/WM1-Tour1.jpg)
This is the new look of World Machine. The crusty old 8bit icons are gone, and everything has been refined more.

(http://www.world-machine.com/wm_images/tour/WM1-Tour2.jpg)
Here's a closer look at one of the new devices, Voroni Noise. Things to notice: Presets for each device that contain your favorite settings; tooltips for the parameters; the voroni noise itself ;)

(http://www.world-machine.com/wm_images/tour/WM1-Tour3b.jpg)
A closer look at the new macro parameters available. Macros are as priveledged as a device -- they can create listboxes, have tooltip help, etc. The macro library is now also hierarchical so that you can organize your macros.

(http://www.world-machine.com/wm_images/tour/WM1-Tour3c.jpg)
How about non-square terrain? It's supported at almost any aspect you want. Maximum terrain size has also increased to 8192x8192. I hope you have a couple gigs of RAM if you want to work at that size!


(http://www.world-machine.com/beta/WM1_Erosion_Example.jpg)

(http://www.world-machine.com/beta/WM1_Erosion_Example3.jpg)
Here's a look at one of the significant advances made: the erosion device is vastly improved, and is both far more powerful, and more flexible -- you can create some very distincive erosion types.

The first image is a before-and-after with the "Geological-time enhancement" set to full blast. It's now possible to literally wear mountains away to nothing.

(http://www.world-machine.com/wm_images/tour/WM1-Tour3.jpg)
Last up on the tour is a view from Explorer mode. Explorer mode lets you walk/fly/drive/etc around your virtual world and find a piece of terrain that you want create. It's also a great deal of fun on its own. ;) It is very scalable with your machine's power -- a high end machine can have the quality of that screenshot or above, a low end machine can find a detail setting that will be workable -- I've even tested on an ancient Voodoo3 system, and gotten almost-usable framerates. Most machines will be able to find a setting that gets them 20-30fps (what's required for fluid navigation)


So that's it for now. Still no promises on the release date, but I WILL say I would be very surprised if it was not available within the next two months. Hopefully I've given you all something to look forward to!
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: prophet118 on April 06, 2005, 07:16:26 pm
well, what kind of a timeline are we looking at, since ive been so far out of the loop hanging out at the yahoo group...lol
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: prophet118 on April 06, 2005, 08:12:05 pm
also, what size will the unregistered version be maxed at?...


im probably gonna register, but i wanna just check on things
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Stephen on April 06, 2005, 09:03:26 pm
timeline is, like I said, sometime in the next 2 months.

Unregistered version is still capped at 512x512, like before. There will also be a small number of devices that are registered-only.
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Sethren on April 06, 2005, 09:28:02 pm
Too Cool... so glad i registered... two months will fly by quick... thanks for those neat previews... like the Geological-time enhancement feature... that will be fun......... i noticed a strata texture now on the small preview window... that looks nice...........
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Anonymous on April 06, 2005, 09:30:08 pm
Quote from: Remnanttimeline is, like I said, sometime in the next 2 months.

Unregistered version is still capped at 512x512, like before. There will also be a small number of devices that are registered-only.


wow, cool!
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: prophet118 on April 06, 2005, 09:31:45 pm
that last message was from me.... i thought i was logged in... weird

anyway, yeh, this looks cool, cant wait....

oh... and out of curiosity, how well might this work with TG2?
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: JavaJones on April 06, 2005, 10:57:50 pm
It will work fine with TG2 since TG2 still supports heightfields.

- Oshyan
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: prophet118 on April 07, 2005, 06:20:12 am
yeh, but im referring to the stuff matt showed us with that displacement map stuff
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: X-PaX on April 07, 2005, 08:05:23 am
Wow. That "Gealogical time enhancement" looks very cool. With the right color settings I think it would be possible to work without Terragen.
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: prophet118 on April 07, 2005, 11:16:06 am
can the new WM save a default world size other than 257 between uses?

in other words when i start up, will i have to change it manually?
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Rhalph on April 07, 2005, 11:58:44 am
you can already do this in v0.99 ! Just edit the "startup.tmd" file...
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: prophet118 on April 07, 2005, 12:06:56 pm
ah, well then..lol
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: JavaJones on April 07, 2005, 12:53:42 pm
What exactly about displacement did you want to know? TG2 can displace heightfields, so you could import a base WM heightfield then add detail with displacements. Of course the displacements wouldn't be based on the original terrain because TG2 has no knowledge of WM's generators, but you could probably adjust the displacement features to look very good anyway.

- Oshyan
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: prophet118 on April 07, 2005, 12:56:53 pm
i cant remember the exact image, but it was one of the first ones matt showed up, i havent really figured out exactly what is used to make the displacement maps

http://planetside.co.uk/terragen/tgd/images/deep_canyon_v04.jpg

what was used to make the displacement map.... inquiring minds want to know... i dont rcall matt letting us in on alot of the information.. ya know?
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Stephen on April 07, 2005, 05:44:18 pm
Quote from: X-PaXWow. That "Gealogical time enhancement" looks very cool. With the right color settings I think it would be possible to work without Terragen.


Not that I've seriously thought about it, but once or twice I've been struck by how, if there was any kind of texture&bumpmapping at all (right now it is vertex coloring only, no texturing at all), it would look pretty damn neat.

I've always had a very strong interest in realtime 3D graphics, so I have to constantly fight the urges along those directions to keep WM focused. But the thought does tantalize...
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: JavaJones on April 08, 2005, 01:58:33 am
There are 2 things going on in that canyon image. The overhangs in the canyon itself, on the walls, are procedurally generated displacement, created with a built-in generator/displacement function of TGD. Then on the top of the canyon, on the right of that image, there are some small rocks done with a rock distribution tool.

- Oshyan
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: prophet118 on April 08, 2005, 05:48:24 am
ok, see i didnt know that tgd/tg2 genertated the displacement...lol, carry on..
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: JavaJones on April 08, 2005, 07:43:10 pm
TG2 can generate the displacement and can also use imported images for dislacement, masking, etc. It's quite versatile.

- Oshyan
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: prophet118 on April 08, 2005, 09:10:13 pm
heh, cool.... i guess then my only concern with the new WM is that 3d bug i get....

when i use the 3d preview, instead of the colors being distributed based on height and stuff (like a color shaded height map) i get bands of color... i know i talked to you about it oshyan, i just dont really recall why it did that..heh
Title: Movie tool
Post by: cptbruno on April 09, 2005, 06:23:32 am
When I started writing this idea, it was specifically for the erosion tool.  I was thinking it would be cool to be able to set a range of values within it so that it would output a series of settings, the goal being able to generate a series of terrains for Terragen to use to create a movie of a mountain erroding, for example.

Then it occurred to me this concept might be great generally.  But how to do it.  So, thinking out loud on implimentation:

There would be two similar but different ways to do this.  One is within a generator or device, there would be a checkbox called Movie.  Check it and two identical sets of settings (Start and End) would now appear.  Whatever changes between Start and End would show up as your movie.  For example, if this were a Terrace filter, set

Start
 # of Terraces = 7
 Terrace Shape = 0.1

End
 # of Terraces = 2
 Terrace Shape = 0.5

The File Output device would have a Movie section into which you enter number of Frames and something for naming the terrains sequentially.

The second method would be for macros and would be the way to have a number of generators and devices change over the course of your movie.  You could simply use the first method within each device, but this would allow you to control each item centrally.

Each macro would a Movie checkbox.  Check it, and you are now shown an empty list to which you select and add a setting from any of the generators, macros and devices which make up this macro.  For example, suppose you have two Perlin generators you've named Perlin A and Perlin B.  Select Persistance from Perlin A and Feature Size from Perlin B.  Then suppose you have a Terrace device and select Realism from it.

You now select each item in your list in turn and set its Start and End parameters.  For example:

 Persistance(Perlin A)   Start=0.200     End=0.800
 Feature Size(Perlin B)  Start=1.00      End=17.50
 Realism(Terrace)        Start=0.125     End=0.600

Now, when you set the File Output to output a Movie, it steps these values based on the number of Frames entered.

There are a number of other ideas I can think of, but that should be enough to see if you think the idea is feasible.  I realize at this point it would probably be version 2.0 before it could be added, but just in case...
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Stephen on April 10, 2005, 05:07:23 am
Animation support is probably a 2.0 feature.

What I've been envisioning is somewhat like your description, but implemented a bit differently.

Essentially, you would be able to do keyframing of any WM parameter modifications. You would have a timeline that you can slide along, and at a certain time, you can set any parameter on any device to a particular value, and WM will then interpolate between the keyframes that you have defined to get the values of the devices at any particular point in time.

This not only is logical and familiar to anyone who's worked with an animation package, but meshes very easily with WM's internals and so would be straightforward to implement.

The only rub is devices like Erosion, that are so slow that a naive implementation to animate would be quite slow. But that's not insurmountable.

Anyways, its definitely a cool feature I've been thinking about, but its not going to go into 1.0 for sure.
Title: Re: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: tj.odonoghue on April 18, 2005, 03:35:50 pm
QuoteSo that's it for now. Still no promises on the release date, but I WILL say I would be very surprised if it was not available within the next two months. Hopefully I've given you all something to look forward to!

>>

Still hoping the new version will be able to create large (4097) terrains and have a manual for reference for those of us who are not math savants  ... ?
Title: very cool
Post by: eleven7 on April 18, 2005, 05:24:05 pm
I'm looking forward to it's release.
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Stephen on April 18, 2005, 09:31:42 pm
Hi Tim,

it will have both. Max res is up to 8192x8192, although to work at that size is problematic for those without a couple gigs of RAM.

A manual is definitely something that will be there for 1.0. I'm trying to figure out now how to make it useful for the people who need it, IE those who WM doesn't make immediate intuitive sense. At the least, it will definitely detail what everything does; and hopefully take a good stab at explaining how to use WM.
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: tj.odonoghue on April 19, 2005, 01:47:25 pm
Hi Stephen;

Thanks for the reply. It's good to see that WM has reached Beta 1 phase.

I'd be happy to help in reviewing the early documentation if there's a need - especially since I'm one of thse who has little intuition about WM.':?
Confused

I also have a new machine that should be able to deal with any terrain - especially if I leave it to cook overnight. 8-)



Quote from: RemnantHi Tim,

it will have both. Max res is up to 8192x8192, although to work at that size is problematic for those without a couple gigs of RAM.

A manual is definitely something that will be there for 1.0. I'm trying to figure out now how to make it useful for the people who need it, IE those who WM doesn't make immediate intuitive sense. At the least, it will definitely detail what everything does; and hopefully take a good stab at explaining how to use WM.


:?  :lol:  :wink:
Title: Coooooool :-)
Post by: Haroon on May 30, 2005, 07:25:47 am
Hi Remnant,
the Explorer mode is capable of calculating Perlins, Splitters, Erosions in real time on a high end machine????
Gonna love this!
Volker Harun
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: jgwinner on May 31, 2005, 09:57:07 am
Quote from: RemnantHi Tim,

it will have both. Max res is up to 8192x8192, although to work at that size is problematic for those without a couple gigs of RAM.



Cool.

I've said this before, but that's not a high end machine nowdays.  I just bought 2 sticks of ram, grand total 200 or so.  I plan to go to 4 soon.

Anyone using this for serious game development or movies is going to have a workstation class machine anyway, with at least a gig and a half; the Ram only costs about 100 bucks if you shop around.

Leveller lets you pick whatever size you want.  I did a 16kx4x grid with my old machine and it was workable.  (I was doing a 'fly down' of Valles Marinaris).  

It would be very cool if WM could warn you but let you do something stupid.  I forget if non square works.  

       == John ==
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Stephen on June 07, 2005, 06:27:44 pm
Haroon:

yep, the entire world network will be generated real time and progressively refined as you give a particular view more CPU time. So if you jump somewhere, you will first see a very rough image of that area, refining as the CPU gets a chance to build better and better terrain for those areas.

John:

Very true, although in 32bit windows, a given process is limited to 2GB of RAM. Without some deft memory work, this gives us an upper bound of how large a heightfield can be used, since some devices need to have 3 or 4 heightfields active at once (eg erosion) to function.

Non-square does work in 1.0.
Title: 2 months have passed...
Post by: Xenon on June 09, 2005, 05:31:29 pm
Any release news?  :D
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Stephen on June 09, 2005, 06:14:31 pm
Well, the actual program code has been about done for some time now. Just some bugs and one last thing left I'd like to implement, and then its a wrap for v1.0.

Most of my time over the last while that I've been able to devote to WM has been involved with writing the docs. This is taken MUCH longer than I initially expected, mostly due to getting a good grip of organizing and approaching them.
Title: Documentation!?!
Post by: Haroon on June 10, 2005, 01:38:51 am
I don't need any - as long as I can play with the new version - now 8)
Hi Remnant,
it is really appreciated and I hope that you will keep on going, as - surprise - your 2 months release anouncement is 2 months ago :shock:

Just for me speaking - don't caring about others - just give me a V1.0 without  documentation - I won't tell anybody :D

hopping around, Haroon    :wink:
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Anonymous on June 10, 2005, 09:58:29 am
Quote from: Remnant
Most of my time over the last while that I've been able to devote to WM has been involved with writing the docs. This is taken MUCH longer than I initially expected, mostly due to getting a good grip of organizing and approaching them.


THANK YOU. DOC writing is VERY GOOD. The lack of docs written from a completely new users point of view is the thing that had kept me from registering WM. It just frustrated me when someone say, "Oh just play around with it you will get it." NO I want something  a GOOD walkthru and then a COMPREHENSIVE reference that I can look thru when I get stuck.
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: Anonymous on June 11, 2005, 08:15:04 am
good, very good!
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: X-PaX on June 21, 2005, 01:33:17 am
Sounds good.
I see light at the end of the tunnel.  :D

Hmm, I see some very strange sentence at the Guest last posting  :wink:
Title: An illustrated preview of WM 1.0... (gfx heavy)
Post by: jgwinner on June 23, 2005, 08:19:25 pm
Hey, I'd take a copy without docs.

I'm even a PAID customer!  :D

Parts of the program were confusing, docs are really needed.  Even as an experienced user, I would find that I had no idea what some of the inputs did.  For final beta testing I'd be perfectly happy without docs though.

I wish I could do my 16k x 4k though  :twisted:

Any hope for a 64 bit version  8)

== John ==