Island heightmaps possible?

Hello all,

  I'm [i]ultra[/i] new to WM and programs of this sort. It seems like a great piece of kit but I would love to be able to produce realistic island heightmaps.
  Of course I can edit the final result but I end up with unnatural looking maps that have obviously had a coastline applied to them rather than a realistic looking isle. I've looked at the quickstart and have waded through various menu options but to be honest it's just confused me totally!
  Many thanks for any help in advance and of course many thanks to the program dev. for a top application. :)

Sorry if this was not the quickest possible answer (which in fact wasn’t) but for an “ultra new to WM” person, you ask hard questions :wink: This also involed some talk with other members as a jumpstart :stuck_out_tongue:

As usuall this type of questions have several answers… I’ll give them (or some of them) later, first let me clarify some definitions.
What is an island? This is the fisrt problem I have when answering you, because it can be a mountain exported to some other program that sets the water level up to a certain place, and when rendered the mountain is alone in the water. It could also be a mountain that is alone in a flat terrain, which adequatelly painted in blue will look like water.
For an island I will assume it is a mountain surrounded be a flat terrain; this is more versitile as it can be used in the two ways i mentioned earlier…

Ok, Now for the short type of answer to your question:
Yes it is possible
Like in equipement reviewing, “it depends on what you want” and how demanding you are.

But it is my oppinion that if you are able to make an island combining all the components you want (coastline + beach + nice-looking vulcano + etc) in the places you want them to be (beach near water, volcano in centre, etc) You will be able to make any terrain you whish, not just islands…

If you want a single Macro that will generate islands, than I’m affraid is even more complicated… Macros were meant to simplify short and/or repetitive steps of “WM-ing”, not for replacing complete projects… :slight_smile:
I think each island requires the parental attention of its creator, so to speak :wink:

So in short, an island seen as a chunk of land coming out of the see, is easy… But if that chunk of land has cliffs, beeachs, volcanos, etc, you first need to know how to make cliffs, beach, volvanos, etc… :frowning: Then you also need to know how to compose them in the right places… And for all this you need experience, practice, and a decent manual (this last topic is being taken care of).

I hope I did not discourage any of you from reading my next post with the more technical juice :slight_smile:

Did I write all that?? :shock: Was that the short answer? Well at least I know your are still reading this, which means I wasn’t boring enough… So give me this second chance! :wink:

Right! Now for the techies…
I was under the impression the topic of islands had been mentioned earlier, but I can’t seem to find it… Anyway, the problem of placing a mountain in the middle of an ocean, is the same as placing a beach near the water, or placing a volcano 2 miles north of the second pool to the right… The way you do this in WM is to have a mask for where you want to place volcanos, or beaches… Notice, you place “volcanos”, and don’t place “the volcano”. So, in theory, for the island you want to mix two terrains (flat_water and mountain) together.

[I don’t know what is the best way to explain this, so I’ll try to transmit my way of decomposing tasks, and try to use it to pass-down the logic]

The chooser device:

Think of your problem in the same way and complexity as the devices you use. The chooser device, is the most common device for choosing between things… It has 2 inputs for terrains to be mixed (or choosed between) so it is useless to think in more than two things to choose from a t a time. So if our island is composed of water + mountain + beach + cliffs + volcano, we should only choose between water and “stuff” (where “stuff” is the choosing between “stuff2” and “stuff3” (where “stuff2” is … (((…)))) and so on…
To make the choice you only need a mask (terrain similar to others that is interpreted as weighting value). Imagine each pixel of the mask to be a value between 0% and 100%, and the final result of choosing on that pixel position will be x% of terrain A + (100%-x%) of terrain B, where x is the value of that pixel.

The other devices:

So this sounds theoretically good! The problem usually is more to have the volcano in the right place, so you can shoose it there… This is, IMHO, the problem that the WM-er must solve.
(To understand the problem imagine overlapping and island and a terrain full of volcanos. Imagine now that there is no volcano over the island. the only solution whithout translating anything is to push randomize button. it’s probably more boring to push randomize buttons, than to read this text :slight_smile: )
So back to our problem, we need to model our modelling according to how WM works. We have to think of ways to create things from what has been built already, to serve as clues for WM to do what we want.
Very well the island!.. I’ve been writing so far and have not made any island… Play with a perlim noise until you get some moderatelly spiky terrain. use a clip device to clip the lower 50% of terrain (in “clip” mode)… Ok, instand unrealistic island: “just add water!” :wink:

Play a bit more to have larger islands so we can have room to place beaches and stuff…

Now if we followed what I said about the chooser device, we would like to have a terrain looking like a beach (dunes macro) and choose between normal-island and dunes! Now we can’t just choose between them like this, because 1 both terrains are at different hights… We will also need 2 to create a mask to say where the beach is… For problem #1 we can use the chooser in “add” mode, for problem #2 we need to think of a way to use what has been constructed already as a starting base for WM to create the mask. Very well let’s think on what we have: a terrain mostly flat that suddenly has mountain, and we want that mountain to have a beach at its base. To do this you can use a height-selector to select the height range to replace by a beach. While you select the values for the height-selector, keep checking the preview window to know the space the beach will occupy. Choose something between 0.00verylittle to 0.0something :slight_smile:
By this time you should have understanded that you can create an island with a few dunes and an ugly mountain in the middle. For this you should have already spent a lot of minutes adjusting the variouses devices’ and macros’ parameters…
Now you could also have made use of transform devices to change the result from the select-height device in order to have more “room for maneuver” when selecting…

Also, if instead of a clip device, you would have used another height-selector, you would feel the need to keep both this and the other height-selector for the beach mask set up to the same height value… For this you would probably whant to use the scalar devices.

So as you can see the device net can spread like weeds in a jumgle, so thanks, Stephen, for giving us Macros. That is what I use them for… When I get to a point where something is conceptually solid and “nameable”, I turn it into a macro.

Conclusion:

So the first long post was to warn that this hadn’t one solution.
This second long post is to say that, there is no one device that can do what we want (notice my first post suggested a chooser for the island and sea, and I ended up suggesting a quicker clip device); and that independently from the terrain we are building it is very usefull to think the same way WM “thinks”, so that things are created with the logic we intend them to be. (beaches where we want)
I also left this island issue open, because I think it is too broad and too adequate for each of us to explore on our own. It deserves the parental dedication we can give it so that different solutions can florish…

[Are you still reading this?? I must think that I am a poet or something… :P]

Good WM-ing to all of you

Crikey! :shock:

Some serious food for thought there, it would seem that I have been grossly underestimating the complexity of this issue!
I’ve returned from holiday and have a few more days before I have to go back to work so it’s time for some serious …er… islanding. :smiley:

Many thanks indeed for taking the time to make your posts. Definately the most in depth response I’ve ever had to a help thread. :slight_smile:

I’ve managed to make a single island macro.

Nothing special, no really it was just a bunch of gradients, if I have more time I’ll finish
the traits for changing the height, slope, and bump modifiers,
truthfully I havent quite figured out how to make that
available once its a macro, in such a degree that makes
sense based upon terrain wording…

NEway, here’s a link to it, again, it’s nothing exotic, just
makes life simpler:
-------Ignore above--------

Forget it, get this guy’s macro, after banging my head against a wall trying to add parameters to it so it’s more useful of an addition, I stumbled upon this guys macro:

http://terrafgen.free.fr/Macros.htm

Maybe I should test it first, but he did use the same name.
I’m still going to use mine, since its a centralized island scene.

Has anyone used the Island macro cited by the previous post? I used it and it is really great. However, I’m a new user and I don’t understand what I am supposed to do with the Tree Mask output. I imported the Terrain output to Terragen and it produced fantastic results.

Well that is basically it…
There is not much you can do in WM with a tree mask (unless you want to change the terrain in that place). Those outputs are mostly to be use elsewhere, on terrain rendering programs… Like you did in terragen! The tree mask may be usefull if you have any program that can place tree objects on a map/terrain given that mask… If you want to do it in terragen, I think it is made with SOPack and placing a “green color” in that area… no trees in terragen :P.

Okay, thanks Fill. That’s about what I expected. I haven’t figured out yet how to use masks in TG, but that’s a topic for another list.