terrain question

Bug Reports
#1

in the new version of WM the terrains seem to be working a little differently (in addition to something i noted earlier, which may have been my own fault)

i have built 3 new files using the newest update, and in the past, i could have sworn that when loaded into TG it would almost never create a terrain that was below water, but now even the default world (default one loaded) seems to do this…

i created what i felt was a lovely terrain (in world machine) only to load it into TG and have the entire terrain underwater.

is this a goof by me, or what?

#2

There IS a slight difference. I’ve expanded the Terragen exporter to use another bit of precision in the export; however since TG uses a signed value, if its not compensated for this leads to negative height values inside of TG.

This is easy enough to fix inside of TG, however, by going to Modify->Set Height Range and changing the heights. Or simply adjusting the water level, which you will probably need to do anyways in TG!

#3

well, just as a random funny, i loaded up the terrain (having issues right now with my ftp or id have a link by now) and ended up having to lower the water to about -5000 to get a nice view of the terrain, waterless.

#4

hmm, now that ive re-read what you said… this is a wanted feature by you?

hmm… guess we have to see how bad it makes it, as is creating a nice terrain is pretty easy in WM, but now with this added trouble, i dont know what it might lead to

i really dont want to stop using WM because until now, its been a very nice peice of software…

is this “feature” a problem of terragen just not being able to use this extra bit of precision?

#5

in case anyone wants to test things out, heres the 3 files i was working on

http://www.jamesandjennifer.net/terrains.zip

#6

I have noticed the same thing yesterday. But I have corrected it in Terragen by that way Remnant already mentioned. I see no problem here… but maybe that’s just me. :slight_smile:

#7

guess im just weird then…lol

i do see a problem, one im hoping gets corrected

id prefer to be able to use the terrain straight out…

maybe there should be a check box saying “use extra bit of precision”

#8

Checkbox doesn’t sound bad. If this changes the behavior people are used to previously in a significant way, it’s probably best if it’s optional.

  • Oshyan
#9

i went diving into options to see if there was anything immediately obvious, but half of the stuff in the options are things that are either slightly above my head, or miles above.

so i dont know if there exists a way of turning this bit of precision off or not…

i suppose we could always talk to Matt about seeing if he can update terragen to use this… i dont know how likely it is though

#10

I experienced this today… it should be able to modify some values in the .ter file.
Or am I wrong?!

Anyway - a bit more precision is always good. :slight_smile:

#11

well, apparantly its not a fault of world machine per se, its how terragen reads the files, which result in negative values

Stephen is correct that we can just use “set height values” in terragen to fix it, however there is no way of knowing from looking what the correct values should be, i suppose one could try taking off the negative sign, but is that a true and accurate way?.. who knows

what i do know is that we need a way of accurate getting our files into TG, and right now there are 3 options:

1.) have matt input this extra bit of precision into TG (we need to mention this trouble on the TG list and see what matt says

2.) do nothing/remove the bit of precision

3.) make a check box in WM to use or not use this precision

#12
1.) have matt input this extra bit of precision into TG (we need to mention this trouble on the TG list and see what matt says
This is not a bug - so he will not care much.


-> I believe you can influence the height of a terrain after ALTW
Base Height would be 0
Elevation would be the value set in WM (Terrain Height Scale under the preview)

#13

I have a feeling there will be a checkbox coming… :stuck_out_tongue:

#14
1.) have matt input this extra bit of precision into TG (we need to mention this trouble on the TG list and see what matt says
This is not a bug - so he will not care much.


-> I believe you can influence the height of a terrain after ALTW
Base Height would be 0
Elevation would be the value set in WM (Terrain Height Scale under the preview)

well its not like im dictating what changes any one of the 2 head programmers should make, far from it, its not a bug in either program, its just that one program works with the other, thus when one makes a leap forward, the other should (could) follow

like say for instance Stephen makes a stunning leap forward that would allow for camera information from world machine to actually be exported into TG (i dont know if this is or isnt possible, bear with me) but terragen doesnt support some coordinate, or value or whatever… its not stephens fault (directly) that TG wouldnt support such a value, or Matts…

#15

Yes, the funny thing is this “extra bit of precision” has always been supported by Terragen and the .ter format. It was WM that was behind. :wink: Again I agree that the update should not have changed existing behavior so much though. It should either be scaled properly on export (this should be possible), or the “extra” bit should be optional.

  • Oshyan
#16

hmm, well if its in the file format for .ter’s, then why is it all goofy?

#17

Well, my personal guess is that WM 1.0 was outputting height values between 00000 and 01111 [0 an d 15 in binary values]. (none of these values are real, their just explanation-oriented) Now, WM outputs between 00000 and 11111. That “1” in the begining gives twice as much possibilities as there were before. The trouble is that a binary number starting with 1, is usually seen as a negative number. So now terrains come from 11111 (-15) to 01111 (15), with 00000 being the middle 0. So if the water level was at, say (minus) -2 feet in TG (or something looked like 10010 in binary), in the old WM generated terrain the water was not visible, and now it is almost halfway up.

I hope I haven’t confused anyone with 11111 < 10010 < 00000 < 01111.

#18

i always hated binary math, and i havent even taken it…lol

#19

:smiley:

…in other words, one diluvian bit is enough to flood the whole planet :stuck_out_tongue:

#20

:?:

brain melt down!